Peter Malone Elliott  0:00  
All right, 

Erica Davis  0:01  
all right, Jenks? Hey, everyone. Welcome to this podcast needs a title. I'm Erica Davis.

Peter Malone Elliott  0:10  
And I'm Peter Malone, Eliot. And this is real talk about writing, publishing and everything in between. In a few minutes here, we're going to be talking with Lee Matthew Goldberg, a supremely talented author, screenwriter and editor of the soon launch fringe press. But first, yeah, Erica. Huh? How are you?

Erica Davis  0:29  
I am a lot calmer than last time. I have. reeled it back on the iced coffee. Yeah. And that was difficult to do just because it's so hot here in Florida, but iced coffee is very cold. 

Peter Malone Elliott  0:44  
What's the temperature you're looking at here?

Erica Davis  0:46  
 4 million right now. 

Peter Malone Elliott  0:47  
4 million. 

Erica Davis  0:48  
Yes, yes.

Peter Malone Elliott  0:48  
Celcius or Fahrenheit? 

Erica Davis  0:49  
Uh huh.

Peter Malone Elliott  0:50  
 Okay. 

Erica Davis  0:51  
And for those of you who may not be able to see me through your earphones, my hair is in a braid, because that is the only way to contain it enough to fit under the headphones that I have for the podcast. Yeah, it's just that humid and yeah, so alright. But I'm good. I am excited for Lee. 

Peter Malone Elliott  1:12  
Yeah, me too. 

Erica Davis  1:13  
And I'm a little bit creeped out at you sitting. listeners. 

Peter Malone Elliott  1:22  
Listen. 

Erica Davis  1:23  
Let me tell them let me tell 

Peter Malone Elliott  1:24  
Okay. All right. You tell them 

Erica Davis  1:26  
my delightful co host Peter Mullan. Elliot, is currently sitting in what looks to be a one by three closet. Probably 

Peter Malone Elliott  1:34  
approximately, 

Erica Davis  1:35  
in a muscle tea that has a polaroid logo on it. And his headphones and microphone. And I can only see him due to the glow of the screen reflecting on him. And it's slightly weird. And I like it.

Peter Malone Elliott  1:51  
Oh, thank you. I I'm going for the stalker Look here. I mean, that's that's that's that's the chic look for this season. No, I I just I just moved into my New York apartment in Brooklyn. And it's beautiful. It's great. But it's 100 year old brownstone. And it's has high ceilings and it's very echoey. And I didn't think ahead enough to get one of those comb things that wraps around the microphone to the echoey. 

Erica Davis  2:18  
Right, 

Peter Malone Elliott  2:18  
hence me moving into the closet. And you know, it's there's no there's no light light in the closet. So it I look like you know, like the guy the neighbor that shouldn't come out of his house right now. 

Erica Davis  2:30  
Oh, I'd agree with that. I'm gonna take a screenshot of you right now. Ready? One, two. Perfect. That was delightful. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but you do that the sound is a lot better than we did our pre check a few minutes ago out in his beautiful echoey apartments. Yes. Congrats on the new place. I'm so glad to move is behind you.

Peter Malone Elliott  2:47  
Yeah, me too. If I don't have to look at another set of boxes or packing tape for like, another couple years. At least that would be beautiful. I would like yeah, God. Yeah.

Erica Davis  2:59  
Tell me about it. I just started playing Animal Crossing and all my new neighbors have all these boxes, and they won't talk to me until they're done unpacking. And I'm like, would you just unpack already? Because you're really cute.

Peter Malone Elliott  3:09  
What's Animal Crossing? 

Erica Davis  3:10  
Oh. Another episode? Oh, five where it's just you and me. 

That's true. How are you doing?

Peter Malone Elliott  3:18  
I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I mean, the I literally moved in this past weekend. So two days ago. Sorry. My apartments not completely unpacked. But I'm really good. I'm really happy to be living in Brooklyn. I was about to say be a New Yorker. But I was told by a native New Yorker that if you haven't been living there for 10 years, you cannot say you are a New Yorker. elst they'll get mad at you. 

Erica Davis  3:42  
I call bs I call it Yes. If you're gonna be paying taxes. You're a New Yorker. 

Peter Malone Elliott  3:48  
Who said anything about taxes? Peter Wesley Snipes. Wesley Snipes doesn't pay taxes. Why should I? 

Erica Davis  3:55  
The guy from 30 rock? 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:00  
NO! the dude from blade? The blade the 

Erica Davis  4:03  
Oh, the DUDE  from blade? 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:04  
Yeah, a guy got arrested for tax evasion. Yeah.  Oh, man. It really it really just takes the wind out of the sails of the joke. You have to explain it, but 

Erica Davis  4:13  
I know that's why I did it. 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:16  
Should we talk about our accountability goals from last time? 

Erica Davis  4:18  
Yeah, we should. Unless there's anything else going on in your creepy little closet that you need to talk about? 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:23  
Well, I do I do have a severed head but we...

Erica Davis  4:32  
I'm calling it guys I think Peters apartments gonna end up being haunted regardless of if he believes in ghosts or not. 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:39  
Potato Potato. 

Erica Davis  4:40  
This is how horror movie star Peter. 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:42  
Okay. 

Erica Davis  4:43  
Speaking of. 

Peter Malone Elliott  4:45  
Yeah,

Erica Davis  4:45  
[ACCOUNTABILITY TIME THEME SONG]  heard back from Stacy. Stacy Graham of three C's literary her original goal was to get through half of the full manuscripts from writers on her plate and get back Those authors, and that was about 10 of them. And she told us yesterday that she was able to get back to 15 writers since the podcast recording and I quote, "I should use peer pressure more often" end quote from Stacy Graham of three C's literary. 

Peter Malone Elliott  5:14  
So peer pressure works, 

Erica Davis  5:16  
positive peer pressure works, accountability works. And it's okay if you don't meet the goal. How did you do Peter?

Peter Malone Elliott  5:24  
Well, I bit off a little bit more than I could chew. Frankly, Erica, I set myself two goals. The first goal was to be fully unpacked, which I am not, I'm like 85% there. But I'm not all the way unpacked. And the other goal was to write a new chapter to my novel, which I haven't completed. So I failed on both accounts. But I had a lot of life stuff come up in the last 10 days, give myself a break and beat myself up for meeting those goals.

Erica Davis  5:54  
That's, that's great. That's good. And I know how that's how a piece of how you're wired to punish yourself. But I think it's nice to know that you can step back from that. I do have a challenge for you for the end of this episode, when we get to those upcoming accountability goals. I challenge you to only pick one goal. 

Peter Malone Elliott  6:12  
Oh. 

Erica Davis  6:13  
So far, I think you're three for three and picking a multiple part goal. And the parts don't have anything to do with each other. I mean, it's like one is creative life. One is personal life. Either is great. But I feel like you may or may not be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Peter Malone Elliott  6:30  
Up for failure... 

Erica Davis  6:30  
Yeah. I have no problem with failure. Failure is my middle name. And I think it has a bad connotation. Okay, another episode another day. 

Peter Malone Elliott  6:38  
Erica, how did you do? 

Erica Davis  6:39  
How did you I didn't do too bad. I my goal was to write an additional 9500 words on my YA horror manuscript, and zero draft. So like, it didn't have to be great, 

Peter Malone Elliott  6:53  
right.

Erica Davis  6:53  
I didn't hit that goal. But I did write 8000 pretty good words, and I'm really happy with that outcome. And wow, how did I get to pretty good words instead of zero draft stuff you ask? Well, because Hetal Avanee and John Cosgrove have got in my head and I have not eaten while I've been writing now. 

Peter Malone Elliott  7:16  
Mic drop. 

Erica Davis  7:18  
I know, right? I'm a big snacker. Everyone I if I don't eat every 18 minutes, it's She-Hulk time here. And I'm guessing there might be some nutrition stuff going on with that or hypoglycemia. I'm working on figuring it out right now. But I just can't eat when I'm hungry. I can't eat when I'm hungry. I always eat when I can't write when I'm hungry. So I just make sure that I am comfortable. And have had a snack or lunch or something or breakfast before I eat and then immediately after, oh my god before I write really after. See they're very tantamount. And there's a lot of food in my books and stories. So it's all the same,

Peter Malone Elliott  7:52  
Erica?

Erica Davis  7:53  
What?!

Peter Malone Elliott  7:54  
I think it's about tha--"WHAT?!" 

Erica Davis  7:58  
Peter! 

Peter Malone Elliott  7:59  
I think it's time to bring in our wonderful guests. What do you think? 

Erica Davis  8:02  
I am ready? Tell me about him. 

Peter Malone Elliott  8:04  
Alright. Lee Matthew Goldberg is the author of six novels, including the ancestor, the mentor, the desire card, Orange City and slow down. He's been published in multiple languages and nominated for the prix du Pular. His first YA series runaway train is forthcoming in 2021, along with a thriller novel stalkers stocked. He's also the co founder and publisher of fringe dedicated the publishing fiction that's outside of the box. Hey, so let's bring him in. Hello, Lee. Welcome.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  8:37  
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to do this today. 

Erica Davis  8:40  
Absolutely. Oh, 

Peter Malone Elliott  8:41  
thank you. Thank you. 

Erica Davis  8:42  
Oh, and of course, my dogs just started barking. Hope you guys cab hear them? 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  8:45  
He's in on it, too. 

Peter Malone Elliott  8:46  
Yeah, he's ready. 

Erica Davis  8:48  
All three of them. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  8:49  
All three of them. Yeah. Who does that? 

Erica Davis  8:51  
We don't get a lot of visitors here in rural Florida. Guys.

Peter Malone Elliott  8:55  
 That's okay. We'll just we'll just we'll just we'll take it again.

Erica Davis  8:58  
You guys hear them or no? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Peter, why don't I start out by you asking? Our friend Lee. Your question that you asked me about New York. 

Peter Malone Elliott  9:08  
Okay. All right. Yeah. So hard hitting question right off the bat. I just moved to New York. And I've been told by a native New Yorker that I, I myself cannot call myself a native New Yorker until I've lived here for 10 years. True or false. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  9:22  
It's true as well, a native New Yorker, you can never call yourself because you're not from New Yorker yet. You need to be here for 10 years. I think I'll give people seven because not the easiest cities. So if you can make it for seven, give it and I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you the reason I've thought about it, please. I grew up here. I've been here my whole life. I've been mugged twice. I've been flashed. I've been spat on twice. So like unless someone has happened to you, and I doubt they're all going to happen in a crunched amount of time.

Peter Malone Elliott  9:56  
 I'll look for them to all happen in a week. Just knock them out. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  9:59  
That reason for that reason, it usually takes about seven to 10 years. I don't happen to you well,

Erica Davis  10:06  
so it's not the duration of the time. It's the actual real life experience you're talking about here.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  10:10  
Yeah, but what I'm saying is that like, it takes that duration of time to have that real life experience. So usually, yeah, like, Look forward to it for the next seven to 10 years. 

Peter Malone Elliott  10:20  
All right.

Erica Davis  10:22  
You know what, you guys you're welcome to come to Buffalo anytime because if you like drive thru buffalo honorary Buffalonian.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  10:28  
Alright, wow, okay. I also love buffalo wings. It's one of my favorite foods. So like, 

Erica Davis  10:34  
Well, do you mean chicken wings? Because we know where we're from.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  10:39  
I never. I never thought about it that way. 

Peter Malone Elliott  10:41  
GET READY TO RUBMBLE!

Lee Matthew Goldberg  10:42  
Yeah. All right. I love chicken wings. Nice to have them in Buffalo.

Peter Malone Elliott  10:46  
Excellent. So Lee, I mean, right off the bat. I want to start by congratulating you on the release of your new novel runaway train.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  10:54  
Thank you so much. Yeah. So this is my first young adult novel, I mostly write thrillers about people doing horrible things to one another. So this is a little bit of a left turn. And it's a sweet story about I mean, sad. It starts sad about a girl whose sister dies, and she starts to go off the rails. But she dreams of being a grunge singer in the 1990s. And her dream is to meet Kurt Cobain. So she runs away from home to become a grunge singer and be Kurt Cobain. And it's filled with all great 90s references and the chapter titles are different grunge songs. Really fun book. It's all right. And then the sequels coming out. August 5, and it's called grenade bouquets, which is the band. Awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

Peter Malone Elliott  11:40  
I've read the first one. I've had the pleasure of reading it. It's fantastic. It's It's such a delightfully voice driven, you capture the mood of that time period. So well and hard to do. And it's very authentic.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  11:53  
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I was a teenager in the 1990s. Yeah, dates me right now. but who cares. And it was a pleasure to go back to the 90s for a couple months while I was writing.

Peter Malone Elliott  12:05  
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious. I mean, the you said that you have a sequel coming out. So soon. I do. What was I know, usually, traditionally, a sequel takes a long time after the first one comes out what prompted such a quick succession of releases?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  12:20  
Yeah, so I got the deal last summer from my publisher, and they're all about their new white imprint, called whitesville books. A parent imprint. His has been around for many years to base in Vegas. And they do thrillers and westerns. And their mindset was, let's not just publish sort of one book, let's publish a series, right? So when I got the deal, my publisher was like, Oh, do you have it in you to write a sequel? And I was like, Yeah, I could do that. I got it also. I mean, it also was like pandemic quarantine. So this winter, I was like, the hell am I doing? So I wrote it really fast. It was like, seven, eight weeks, I think it took me to write. And it had not that bad edits, like minimal edits. We just got the arcs. Yesterday, two days ago, I think, oh, and it's up on net galley. And yeah, everybody could could enjoy it. Now. There's a third book. I have a due date. The date is Halloween. 

Peter Malone Elliott  13:21  
Wow. That's that's a fast turnaround. All right. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  13:24  
I don't know if that's gonna happen. I said it would. But I'm kind of struggling with the third book. So we'll see. Okay.

Erica Davis  13:32  
All right. Where is the third book in planning stage right now?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  13:36  
So the third book takes place in the present time and in the 90s. And it's the main character Nico's daughter, and her mom goes missing. And she finds her diary. And the book is about going and finding all the people from her past as a clue to maybe where the mom went. 

Erica Davis  13:57  
Oh, wow. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  13:58  
Yeah. And it's called banished me, but I don't because it's a thriller. outlining is a lot harder. Yeah, you know, cliffhangers and things have to happen at a certain time. So I'm just taking a little longer and like things are opening up in New York like I don't know I'm just not like 

Erica Davis  14:16  
right 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  14:16  
INInthe mood to write right now. Yeah, I'm enjoying life again.

Erica Davis  14:19  
Good!

Peter Malone Elliott  14:20  
Yeah, yeah, 

Erica Davis  14:21  
it's great. 

Peter Malone Elliott  14:21  
How I'm so curious I mean, how has been doing publicity in a given year been like I mean, it's just what a strange time to do press for a book.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  14:31  
Yeah, so what's even stranger is I have and will have five books. 

Peter Malone Elliott  14:38  
Lee, you're really lazy you need to step it up. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  14:42  
What am I doing with my life? A few are were like a little delayed because of COVID. So they kind of got crunched and then also because some are the ya series. So they're very different from my thriller books. 

Peter Malone Elliott  14:56  
Sure, sure. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  14:56  
Separate in that way. So I have the the coming out in August, and then I have a thriller set in the reality TV world called stalker stalked coming out in their great title tonight in about. So it's been a challenge. You know, on one hand, a lot of the difficulty is setting up physical tours as you're doing those physical tours, so to not have to do that was in some way sad, but in some ways a relief because you're not taking time out. Sure. Sure. So I booked like all virtual tours, I worked with a lot of tour companies. I did a lot of Insta with nicer grammars. Cool. And that's been really great. I've worked with like goodwill Goodreads programmers. And so that's kind of so I feel like I've learned a lot actually, in this year about how I want to proceed. You know, when you're not like an ageless like Stephen King author. The physical tour doesn't really do that much. It's just like a nice pat on the back. 

Peter Malone Elliott  16:01  
Right, right. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  16:03  
So I I'm learning in the future about like, how much money I want to really put into what is actually showing me like a sales bump.

Peter Malone Elliott  16:12  
Oh, right. Yeah, that is, that's fascinating. I've never thought about that. I mean, my mom is a novelist too. And she had a a book come out last year, and she was doing virtual stuff, too. And she was saying something similar that it's, you know, like, while the the in person ones are more fun. Sometimes it's a wash, like only 10 people show up, right? 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  16:29  
Yeah, 

Peter Malone Elliott  16:30  
like the virtual one. They could record it and put it on YouTube. And it reportedly Yeah,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  16:34  
there's also like the stress of 10 people showing up and feeling really crappy about yourself. I've had great like, I did an event at pauwels bookstore, which was a highlight that had a decent turnout, but they put out like 150 chairs. And I was like 20 

Erica Davis  16:53  
Ouch.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  16:53  
Twenty people max they're gonna show up. I know five people in Portland, maybe they bring five people, we get some stragglers. I was like, you could put away some chairs. You kind of never know. And with a virtual tour, it's a little less embarrassing. And I did. So for runaway train. I did an in person launch in Central Park two weeks ago. And it was just such a pleasure, to like, see people. And there was this other. There was like a teacher's party happening right there. And they had all this alcohol and they were finishing up. And they were like, take all of our alcohol like, have a great time. So that wouldn't have happened in a bookstore. So yeah, it was like a cool COVID-y, you know, thing that will never happen again. Hopefully.

Erica Davis  17:42  
You're right. That's amazing. Well, I have a question for you. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  17:46  
Sure. 

Erica Davis  17:46  
You seem to wear a lot of different hats. I know you're a writer of several different, you know, mediums. And you're also editing for you're starting this press correct? Yes. Yes. fringe press. Can you talk a little bit about fringe? But also, I'm curious, how do you personally, what's the phrase manage the different duties on a day to day level? Or even like hour to hour level? Is that Yeah, yeah. But fringe! How's fringe going?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  18:15  
So. So to start with fringe. It's been in the works for some time. We were supposed to launch during COVID. And it didn't happen. But it was actually a blessing in disguise. because it allowed me some time to really change things up and think about what I'm what I'm working on. So the goal is we're launching next year. I'm working with a great friend of mine, Chris Ratigan, who's awesome, brilliant editor, one of the best, if not the best in the business, I think. So he will actually be the editor now of fringe, and I'm going to be more the face the publisher. Some work on, like everything I want to acquire because, you know, friends, we're looking for kind of out there fiction that maybe a traditional publisher doesn't know how to publish, but probably should be publishing. Yeah, has a commercial side, but the marketing teams like afraid of it, like that's great. I want Yeah. And our goal is like that everything potentially, you know, goes through a pipeline and you know, gets film interest or foreign deals. So on my side of it is going to be more of that side. 

Erica Davis  19:27  
Okay, cool. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  19:28  
Now. And it's in a we have a better editor now handling, like a B plus, I would say 

Erica Davis  19:38  
B plus is pretty decent 

Peter Malone Elliott  19:39  
Great!

Lee Matthew Goldberg  19:41  
But I'll be doing like a second edit on everything. Every single pass, you know, across my eyes. 

Erica Davis  19:49  
Okay. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  19:49  
And to answer your second question, you know, wearing like all these hats, you know, I kind of think of it I'm a screenwriter is sort of second so that's that's sort of the second career. Kind of, you know, reading, fostering. 

Peter Malone Elliott  20:02  
Yeah. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  20:02  
And I see them as like nice breaks from each other. So I write a novel, I'm not ready to just like start a new one right away. It's almost like a palate cleanser, I actually wrote an article for Pipeline Artists about sort of palate cleansing and using screenwriting, because it's such a different kind of use of your brain. 

Peter Malone Elliott  20:23  
Yes. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  20:25  
Writing, essentially, and while it's not easier, it takes a less amount of time. You know, to finish a decent script, maybe a brilliant script takes forever, but I think you know, so I like kind of doing them in between each other. And, you know, we'll see, we'll see how much kind of time that takes. I never want anything to take away time as a novelist, that will always be my first thing. 

Peter Malone Elliott  20:52  
Awesome. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  20:52  
That's my first love. Yeah,

Peter Malone Elliott  20:54  
I think I think you inadvertently answered the question. I couldn't formulate, like, which of those is your core sefl...Yeah.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  21:00  
Like, yeah, yeah. That being said, though, if some stuff starts happening in the Hollywood world, I mean, the pay is like, much better. You get nothing as a novelist like, no money. So things might start to shift in life if like, I headed in that direction. And yeah, you know, I would like a weekend place somewhere. I mean, my things on my plate that I like, Yeah, 

Peter Malone Elliott  21:25  
of course. Right. And a flashback to one of our earlier guests. Lee and fringe is publishing John Cosgrove's novel, which 

Erica Davis  21:34  
That's right. 

Peter Malone Elliott  21:34  
Yes,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  21:35  
yes. So john Cosgrove in the early stages of fringe we were in touch. And he was a winner of the pipeline contest, as well. In the outsider category, right outside or 

Erica Davis  21:50  
unpublished? Yeah. Is that what it is?

Peter Malone Elliott  21:53  
Yeah, the outsider category, the unpublished contest.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  21:55  
And it's great. It's a great book. It's It's so, so different. I think it would make a brilliant indie film. Yes. And I encouraged him to write it as a script. So I think he's working on that now. So that will be one of our first titles we're hoping to launch next summer. I haven't set anything in stone. Sure. And the way I kind of described it to him was like, everything will happen when it's sort of meant to happen. I don't want to, you know, push anything. 

Erica Davis  22:21  
Yeah, of course. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  22:21  
But I'm very excited for him. And I'm excited that he'll be, you know, another face of fringe.

Peter Malone Elliott  22:28  
Yeah. It's so exciting. I kind of backing up just slightly. I kind of wanted to ask, I mean, you said that, obviously, you're a writer, first and foremost. But I'd have to imagine that also being a publisher, and being an editor that has to've inform your writing process in some way. Right? I mean, can you talk a little bit about how one is influenced the other?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  22:47  
Sure. I mean, I think like anything, you know, you read a lot helps you as a writer, you edit a lot, it helps you as a writer, as a writer, you're basically your editor for whoever's seeing it, you know, another reader, your agent, your actual editor. So I mean, I've learned so much from my agent he, at in the early stages was like my editor, basically. And you know, these days, when you're submitting to an editor, the book really is done. And the editor is like fine tuning it. It's not 1985 anymore, we're like, they're doing like an overhaul on your book. And they'll take this chance. And this and that know, your editor is really in house, like the cheerleader of the book in the writing company. So yeah, that's why having a good agent, as an editor is so important, and also yourself being a great editor. So I think for me, like they've all just patting each other on the back and helped each other out for my career,

Peter Malone Elliott  23:49  
something that I that I think a lot of our listeners might be struggling with the listeners that are writers themselves is that thing, you just talked about that self editing mechanism, and I think it's hard for a lot of people to kind of be able to take a step back and look at their stuff, quote, unquote, objectively, right. I mean, how, obviously, you've been doing this a long time, how have you developed that skill? And do you have any advice for people that are?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  24:15  
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the heart. I mean, the business end is the hardest. And prior to that, I think, you know, editing is and, you know, getting your book in a place where you feel like it's ready, right and out is one of the hardest things to do. I've gotten better at it, it's become more natural. I also outline all my books pretty much from start to finish out. So like my first book, took like 10 years to write. Putting the desk for five of those, you know, like, yes, but it went on this roller coaster of a ride Basically, these days, like I'm not done a tart. I'm not taken 10 years to write a book. That's not happening. I don't want to book it like 40 and 50 and 60. No So I outline from start to finish, you usually have about a paragraph per chapter. And then I'll leave myself open. So usually about 75% into that outline, the wheels kind of start to come off and you let it travel the path that it needs to travel, you know? Yeah, I the great writer, Wally Lamb who wrote she's come on done. And I know this as much as true, which is made into the miniseries with Mark buffalo last night. Yeah, he was once in the shower, and he had a calling and they were it was like, this character needs to die. And he was like, Oh, yeah, there you go. And he loved the character, but the character needed to die. And I feel like that happens a lot, too, where you'll something, whatever it is a whisper in your ear, and you'll be like, this needs to happen. And you want to fight it. But sometimes, you know, the character needs to go. Right. Yeah, yeah. open to that. So yeah, that's I think that's some of the best advice I could give. 

Peter Malone Elliott  26:03  
That's great advice.

Erica Davis  26:03  
I just want to add to that, that only in the past year have with this manuscript I've been thinking about, even before I started outlining it. I had started having those even if the outlining stage, those moments of it, it felt like writer's block, but I don't believe in writer's block. I think if I if I feel writer's block, something's wrong with my story. Yeah. And that was true. I realized, it feels wrong, because it is wrong. And I'm like, then I just, I use my imagination, like, "fine main character. I'm just going to dictate you tell me, I'm just gonna transcribe you tell me what happens". I got out of my own way. And it was so much more interesting.

Peter Malone Elliott  26:39  
Like a locomotive. Yeah.

Erica Davis  26:39  
 Honestly, it was off the rails to 

Peter Malone Elliott  26:43  
Hey, 

Erica Davis  26:43  
Oay, I'm like, I did not think of this but fine.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  26:45  
That's the best thing you could do is sometimes step out of the way of like, what naturally needs to happen in a story?

Erica Davis  26:52  
I think so. And I think me setting up myself with that almost mantra like, Okay, I'm just going to transcribe Tell me what's going on, that takes the pressure off of me. Look, I didn't write this crappy draft, my main character did. I was just typing.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  27:05  
Myself often. And I've heard other writers describe this when I'm really in a groove. And I write most days in Central Park in nature, when the weather is so nice. That's, you know, I am best when I am like, fresh air and outside. Yeah, and I literally just leave my body, I go away for about three hours, sometimes, I don't know where I go, I sometimes spiral back down, I have no idea whatever it and. And it's like that letting go and letting yourself not just like feel like you have to be in such control of your book, absolutely. Where the best magic happens. And it doesn't always happen. But if you're able to find that meditative kind of, you know, plane, or a different way to find it, I think that's a good thing for for upcoming authors to tap into.

Erica Davis  27:55  
I heard that advice or something like that, in like in this phase of my writing career. And it's the best part of that. The next half of that advice for me that made it much more plausible was, it's not going to be a one and done, you know, I'm not just gonna find my groove. And it's okay, just like trial and error, trial and error to get myself into that flow state.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  28:17  
Yes, a lot of also, a first book is finding your voice really. And yeah, sometimes you could write a whole book, and you have to go back to the very beginning and rewrite the whole thing. The Voice just, you know, wasn't right. As you start to write more books, it kind of just becomes organic, you know, you just fall into the voice. I used to do theater when I was younger. I did it in college, and before. So I see writing is acting in a lot of ways too, especially if it's in first person, it's like, I'm getting in this character shoes, you know, finding the empathy of the character. And even though I'm not orating it, you know, acting it on a page base. 

Peter Malone Elliott  29:00  
Sure.

Erica Davis  29:00  
Yeah.

Peter Malone Elliott  29:01  
 I think one of the best things that writers can do, even if they have no interest in acting, and don't want to do that, just take a acting class, just one at some point. Just it helps so much, even with just dialogue sounds. Yeah, it helps so much your mouth. Yeah. And I

Lee Matthew Goldberg  29:18  
think that's the advice that really you don't hear a lot. But it only makes sense. Because you're doing a similar thing. You're you know, like I said, you're finding the empathy in these characters and learning how to do that. And you know, that doesn't always come natural to people, especially people who aren't empathetic. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's awesome advice. And yeah, I miss I miss acting. I maybe take another class again.

Erica Davis  29:44  
I want to ask both of you, Peter and Lee. 

Peter Malone Elliott  29:46  
Oh. All right. Here we go. 

Erica Davis  29:49  
This is a question for both you. Were all writers here. 

Peter Malone Elliott  29:52  
Yes. 

Erica Davis  29:53  
When you're done with draft number two, do you type Over draft number two, or do you start a new document for number three? Like I do? I start from scratch, I re type everything. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  30:07  
Oh, really?

Erica Davis  30:09  
 It makes my writing so much. Oh, yeah. Because the wheels come off. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  30:14  
Yeah. 

Erica Davis  30:14  
And it gets even stronger and I don't have to waste any time deleting crap. So I'm, I'm curious if that's part of your process? Or how do you guys when you're starting a new draft? 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  30:25  
Okay, 

Erica Davis  30:26  
a new draft, not continuing a chapter revision. Next Level draft? How do you do it?

Peter Malone Elliott  30:31  
Wow, I've I've never heard of someone doing that before. Erica. That's so cool. But but that sounds I should try that. That sounds really interesting. No, I mean, I just all start at the beginning. And it just kind of tinker with it page by page. You know, in sequential order. It's nothing unusual or fancy. I mean, it's it's just it's kind of the the old school thing of going, I'm going to the mine today, I'm gonna go put the bad whatever you do. I'm not a minor. I don't know, whatever you do when you put the ax in the wall in the mine right 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  30:59  
It's there.

Erica Davis  31:00  
Yeah, ax in the wall..

Peter Malone Elliott  31:04  
We got there. We got there. It's I think people that I share, Eric, his opinion that writer's block is not a thing. I think that is an excuse people use to not write. And I think if you want to be a writer, a writer, you shouldn't treat writing as this kind of magical fairy dust wazzy woozy thing. It is you are a craftsman or crafts woman, you pick up your utensil, everyday you get the work. And if it doesn't work, you try and figure out a way to make it work. And that's that's just kind of how I approach it. You know, that's just how I was raised, because my mom approaches it that way, too. 

Erica Davis  31:35  
Yeah, that's fair. Lee, what about you?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  31:37  
I agree with that. I mean, I just tinker with the different drafts. And sometimes I'll save an old draft and I'll leave it there. So run something and then I'm like, adding like that. Maybe? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that that takes so much patience. I yeah. I but I, I've heard that from other writers. There's the author Lauren Groff, who hand writes her first draft, and got the front door handwrite and then throws it out. And then starts again. If it's worth remembering, she'll remember it. Her sentences are like jewels. I mean, she's one of the best writers in the business. Wow. So something is working with that I, I just that would drive me insane. And I would be paranoid that I threw out something I liked this and that. But I agree also, with I never get writer's block. Hopefully that never happens. And it's mostly because like, if I'm not feeling like the muse, like, I'll go to a museum, I'll go to a theater. Sometimes it's my full time career. So sometimes I'll take like a personal day, sure, if I need to recharge, or look at art, and I listen to music, and I'll go hang out somewhere you have to live life to be a writer. Yeah. So like, it helps me on a day that I'm not feeling it. But I also treat it like a nine to five job. I think if you really want to be successful, you kind of have to because it takes that kind of dedication, and especially with the amount of rejection that you deal with on a daily basis. Yeah. All other kind of animal. You know, that in alone sucks your soul so much. Yes. The amount you have to deal with that and put that aside and learn to do you know, in terms of just being able to sit down and enjoy writing.

Erica Davis  33:21  
I want to make two clarifications about that process of mine. When I'm draft I draft from scratch every new draft. I have a wide screen and I have the old in the left panel and new on the right. So 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  33:32  
That's how I imagined. I imagined that was how you're doing it. 

Erica Davis  33:36  
Yeah. And the other thing is about writer's block. Peter, just want to circle back to one you said that it doesn't exist. I think writers 'get blocked' but I don't think Writer's Block is the thing that's blocking us. Yeah, it's it's the umbrella term for something is wrong with your manuscrapt. manuscript. Yeah, can you something is wrong with your manuscript you idiot. Like, that's what writer's block means.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  33:58  
Just have like a parenthesis. 

An astericks.

Asterick! And I also I had my college writing Professor Blanche Boyd is a great writer, she would have us pick like a short story, we really like one of our favorites and type it out. So at the time we get a feel of the author. So I remember f Scott Fitzgerald is my absolute favorite. And interesting, I was gonna ask, I remember typing out my favorite story of his Babylon revisited. And I remember being out and then like, my writing had a little bit of like an F Scott Fitzgerald feel to it in the story that I wrote after which you know, as an early writer, I think is a good thing. You're you're experimenting with different styles and it's okay to ape an author a little bit, you know, when you're finding your own voice, you know, my writings not as flattering as his it will never be as good as his, you know, like, I'm not delusional. But it was a good way to kind of start to see what I wanted to like. Aim for at Time, you know, I veered more commercial but what I wanted, you know from my writing at the time.

Erica Davis  35:06  
Yeah, 

Peter Malone Elliott  35:07  
[A dog barks] My dog. Let's bring that up to me sorry guys I'm barking I someone's at the door and I have to deal with it. Panda shush! okay. That's a really interesting thing about the short story I would love to I was gonna ask who your favorite classic author was sir mine. Mine is if we're going like classic authors. Mine is probably Hemingway, I think snows of Kilimanjaro is one of the best short stories ever written. And

Lee Matthew Goldberg  35:30  
Hemingway asked to add to what you're saying to learn about writing i think is actually the best. Yeah, abscond show writes very long, difficult sentences. Yes, me, Colin. It's not it doesn't work in today's kind 

Peter Malone Elliott  35:45  
It's a train with like eight cabooses on it. That's

Lee Matthew Goldberg  35:47  
 exactly. Hemingway, you know, is a pioneer of the iceberg methods. So yeah, everything he would write only the top of the iceberg is what would actually wind up in the book. And he had to get through all the other stuff in the iceberg. Yeah, to get to that tip. Yeah. So it's very good. You know, I know Heminway is become outdated. He's not taught as much anymore. 

Peter Malone Elliott  36:09  
And to note, a horrible human being love his writing...not a good guy. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  36:13  
I mean, like, mentally had a lot of mental issues and things like that. So you know, but I'm able to separate-- I love his work, too. I've read most of his novels, he's really informed me. 

Peter Malone Elliott  36:24  
The Sun Also Rises. Incredible. Yeah, 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  36:26  
One of the best. And just like, such a perfect writer, and each sentence a lot like Lauren Groff, you know, they're like jewels, that there's not a word wasted. So I think, you know, if you're in a writing class, yeah, he's one, maybe not literature class, but writing class. He's one of the best to kind of learn about the mechanics of writing. And I learned a lot from him as well. 

Peter Malone Elliott  36:46  
Awesome.

Erica Davis  36:47  
I want to talk about Hemingway for a second, I had a huge crush on a ca--a guy that I worked with a camp.

Peter Malone Elliott  36:52  
and I was, I thought you were gonna say I had a huge crush on Hemingway. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  36:56  
Yeah, I was like, go for it. 

Peter Malone Elliott  36:59  
No, and he was he's very literary person. And he's always so great. And I read the old man in the sea. And you guys, I have never been more bored my entire life. I don't like fish to begin with. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  37:12  
Alright, that's, that makes it tough. 

Peter Malone Elliott  37:14  
So reading about a guy who is hungry and wants to eat fish. I'm like, this is the opposite of what I want to be reading. And I ended up switching to Michael Crichton and falling in love with Michael Crichton.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  37:25  
I mean, Michael Christ is amazing. So nothing nothing wrong with that. old man sees is a it's a brilliant novel. 

Erica Davis  37:31  
What?!

Lee Matthew Goldberg  37:31  
Yeah, very allegorical, 

Erica Davis  37:33  
Okay.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  37:33  
so if you're not catching, like, the meaning, and it doesn't work, so I used to be a I taught undergrad for 10 years. Yeah, I would I would teach old man in the sea a lot. And to really like dive into it and dive in you know, deal with like the symbolism and and think of it is like greater than it's greater than the sum of its parts. I think otherwise. Yeah. It's a little bit boring. 

Peter Malone Elliott  38:06  
Yeah, it's it's a little odd. That wouldn't be the first thing of his that I guess. It's a very like, it's like reading Moby Dick is like the first thing that you've ever read by Melville. It's like, this is overwhelming. I can't deal with this. Yeah,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  38:18  
Maybe try that one like yeah,

Erica Davis  38:19  
I'm good. I only read that was because my crush loved it. And they recommended it. I'm like, "Oh, definitely" I'm like Nah...we're good. If that's his taste in books, like, no.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  38:29  
Yeah, fair. I'm also the belief that like, not all books or writers are for everyone. Right? somebody's not working out. Right. There's another Yes. In the sea. 

Erica Davis  38:42  
down the toilet. Yeah, enough about my sordid boring personal life. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  38:47  
I also love just to also give a shout out to one of my other favorite classic books. 

Peter Malone Elliott  38:52  
Yeah, 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  38:52  
my actual favorite classic book is Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights. So I read that book, like 20 times. I just love it. It's just so weird. 

Peter Malone Elliott  39:03  
I've never read it.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  39:04  
Creepy and perfect. 

Erica Davis  39:05  
It's weird, creepy and perfect. I recommend it. Yeah. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  39:09  
And she never really wrote anything else. So like, you know, 

Erica Davis  39:11  
Yeah Just chef's kiss. Yeah. Peter, what's what's your I like this question for everybody? What's your 'you could read it 20 Times' Book? 

Peter Malone Elliott  39:20  
Ohh...You know, I am biased, obviously, but I'm gonna say one of my mom's books. 

Erica Davis  39:29  
Aww!

Lee Matthew Goldberg  39:29  
That's sweet!

Peter Malone Elliott  39:29  
Under under a war torn sky, which is probably I mean, she's written like, I want to say 15 books. I mean, she's written under probably her most well known one. It's a world war two story loosely based on my grandfather, and 

Erica Davis  39:45  
Oh,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  39:46  
Oh, awesome. 

Erica Davis  39:46  
Wow

Peter Malone Elliott  39:46  
Yeah. And it's I actually adapted it into a script. 

Erica Davis  39:50  
Oh, awesome! 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  39:50  
Oh wow, cool! 

Peter Malone Elliott  39:51  
Yeah. But But like, it's that is a story that is very close to my heart, and it's beautifully written and it's I could probably read that billion times over and not get bored. That's how I know 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  40:02  
I'm gonna order it right now, 

Peter Malone Elliott  40:03  
please.

Erica Davis  40:04  
The one that I have read multiple times is A Wrinkle in Time, Madeline. I just it got me through adolescence and end of sentence... just...

Lee Matthew Goldberg  40:14  
I haven't read it since adolescence. So I feel like as an adult, the movie was not.

Erica Davis  40:21  
There were a couple of attempts and she was really protective of the IP and only signed off on the more recent one, I think right before she passed away. But also to note, A Wrinkle in Time is one of the ones that I started handwriting, just to see what it was like to write. I think I was probably just sounds young, but I was like, Oh, 26 year younger than Peter. When I when I was doing that, but I'm like, I just want to see what how long would it take me to write a chapter like Madeline L'Engle. And 

Peter, you are only 26? 

Peter Malone Elliott  40:51  
27 

Erica Davis  40:52  
He's 27. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  40:53  
Oh my god, I'm so old.

Peter Malone Elliott  40:56  
I have an I'm secretly 65 years old. I hate social media. 

Erica Davis  41:00  
Hey! You said 72 in episdoe zero. 

Peter Malone Elliott  41:03  
I did I have to commit to 72 That's true. I don't understand social media. I drink bourbon. I have a rocking chair. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  41:10  
Okay. alright.

Peter Malone Elliott  41:11  
 I am very cranky. You know, I'd still like I'm 27 in air quotes.

Erica Davis  41:15  
Okay. I'm off track. I don't know what we were talking about. What are we talking now guys?

Peter Malone Elliott  41:22  
I think Lee I think now Erica, we need we need to get to the hard hitting question.

Erica Davis  41:27  
Okay. Lee.

Peter Malone Elliott  41:29  
Question that Erica. Always get cracking knuckles get loose. Limber up. There we go.

I have been asking all of our guests as I've asked Peter, this, I've asked our colleagues this about what they snack on when they write...that question originated, you know, several episodes ago, I have since changed my own ways. But I'm curious now for everybody. Do you snack while you write?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  41:50  
I mean, not literally while I write because then the keyboard would be like full of like crumbs and things like that. I take a good amount of breaks where I'll like, you know, take a bite. So my favorite snack of all time is cheese. It's been. I have been on a crazy health kick for these past few years and cheeses are horrible for you. I haven't added cheese in about three years. So good, though. My new nextdoor is planting chips, and I owe our them good on a daily basis. And I go through sometimes this brand auroras makes like a ton of them that I get at the local supermarket. And I go through like, two in a week. So I'm always eating plantain chips, and it's a little bit better for you. Yeah. Cheese it. Yeah, 

Peter Malone Elliott  42:37  
I don't eat while I write. 

Erica Davis  42:40  
You don't Peter. Have I never asked you?!

Peter Malone Elliott  42:43  
I I've been really offended. You haven't asked me Erica. Cuz you asked all the guests harass me. And you know, it's a whole thing. 

Erica Davis  42:48  
Episode Five is coming up. Remember?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  42:50  
Usually I eat lunch. And my my sweet spot is like 1-4., 1-5 writing. Okay, yeah, I don't I don't write in the morning. So I'll edit and I'll take care of business. And, um, I'm not really a morning person, right?

Peter Malone Elliott  43:03  
I'm the exact opposite. I have to write in the morning and do like, you know, day job stuff in the afternoon, I just flip it.

Erica Davis  43:09  
I'm the opposite of you leave for the same reason, though. I only do creative writing projects in the morning, because I am the least analytical. And that's when my personal editor is still waking up. And then 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  43:23  
I see, yeah. That makes sense.

Erica Davis  43:23  
If, yeah, if I have revision to do editing work, that's not creative. That's the opposite of creative. And so I have to, you know, it's code switch and go to my editing self. But I'm most alert and  GRR editor -ise, like ready to tackle stuff in the app?

Peter Malone Elliott  43:39  
Is that the sound your editor makes?

Lee Matthew Goldberg  43:45  
Yeah, for me also like, I like a couple hours where things are just marinating a little bit even if it's like in the back of my mind, I'm not like actively marinating it. Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah, I think that helps like waking up right away. Although sometimes I like dream my books so like that it comes into my dreams in some form. Wow. In the middle of night, I'll note down Oh, man. So yeah, when you're really into it when I'm like into into a book and it's almost like the last wrap. I'll sometimes dream of sentences and like moving things around.

Peter Malone Elliott  44:18  
Have you ever written a note to yourself in the middle of the night and then you wake up in the morning? You're like, What the? What? Yeah,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  44:27  
no, half the time. It makes no sense. Yeah. Half the time it does. So like it's totally worth it. I used to keep like a writing board. But now it's like I'm older and I like my sleep more. So like sometimes I'm right. I remember the morning if it's work.

Erica Davis  44:42  
Yeah. I fell asleep typing one time. And I kept typing. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  44:47  
Wow, 

Erica Davis  44:48  
You guys, I didn't realize but I typed out the dream. I was having an in this. It was about how I knew I was typing, and seeing things and I'm like I should really not be doing this right now. Meaning I shouldn't be dreaming, I need to wake up and I couldn't wake up. I typed it out. It was wicked and weird. And that's off topic. Uhm, Lee, I have a final question for you. If you could change anything about the publishing industry, what would it be? 

Peter Malone Elliott  45:15  
Great question,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  45:15  
One thing. One thing, 

Peter Malone Elliott  45:18  
listeners, if you could just 

Erica Davis  45:21  
I see what you did,

Lee Matthew Goldberg  45:23  
there's a lot I would change. You know, I think number one, so it's sort of twofold. I'm a little I'm a little nervous that certain publishers are becoming conglomerates. Yes, you have the Random House, Penguin, possibly Simon Schuster, they're all potentially becoming one. And what that will mean is they'll take less chances. So that's really sad for that, that side of the industry, I think indie books will then take the fill and become sort of bigger, maybe Macmillan and Hachette, you know, as well, sure. But I think the biggest issue with that I've faced in the publishing industry, is what the marketing side does for authors. This can bite me in the ass. But I've had, I've had instances where an editor in a big five has wanted to buy a book, and they gave it to the marketing team. And the marketing team was like, we don't know what to deal with this. Like, it's too many different boxes. It's too many different genres. And I'm like, you should be thinking about it in a different way. Because it has it hits so many different boxes. Sell it that way. Yeah. Cuz I write books that are sometimes thrillers, they have some sci fi elements. They could be mystery. They could be literary, not everything just has to be this one thing, right? I think it's actually demeaning to readers thinking that they only want one type of Yes, you know, product. And I've had like, I put out a sci fi book this year, and I had thriller readers of mine, take a chance and read it, and really liked it. Because you know what? This thriller elements and a lot of sci fi stuff, too. It's not that crazy. 

Erica Davis  47:17  
Yeah. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  47:18  
For all my books, I've put the most publicity on my own every one of them. Yep. Which across the board, unless you're like, the biggest author out there happens. Yeah. So the fact that marketing people hold this control, and don't actually do anything, don't always do it. And again, sometimes the book gets anointed. And it's the marketing teams focus. Yeah. And your book is everywhere. And then it's fantastic. But that's a very small percentage of, you know, books that come out. So I think it's an outdated way of viewing it. I don't think they're tapped in enough into social media, in all honesty. And I hope in the next couple years that a little more of the power gets put back in the writers to be able to control and be able to really market and sell their own work.

Peter Malone Elliott  48:16  
That's a great answer. Yeah. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  48:20  
You're welcome.

Erica Davis  48:20  
You're welcome universe!

Peter Malone Elliott  48:20  
so Okay, so Lee, hey, we do this thing where we set accountability goals for ourselves. And for our listeners, would you care to join us for the 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  48:30  
Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.

Erica Davis  48:31  
Awesome. So what would happen is in a minute, you, Peter, and I will just say out into the world what our accountability goal will be for the next time, we record it's about two weeks out two weeks. Yeah. And and then one of us will check back in with you to see how you did so we're holding you accountable. But nothing happens. I mean, there's no consequences. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  48:52  
Gotcha, gotcha.

Peter Malone Elliott  48:54  
I'll call myself a New Yorker if you don't meet the goal. 

Erica Davis  48:57  
Oh. BURN. Challange, LEE 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  49:01  
Nobody might listen, but 

Erica Davis  49:06  
this is getting Wow. Yeah. So I won't 

Peter Malone Elliott  49:10  
I will go first when I first Peter, I will go first [ACCOUNTABILITY THEME SONG]. 

Erica Davis  49:15  
Okay, go ahead. 

Peter Malone Elliott  49:16  
So my my accountability goal for two weeks from now I want to have chapter 11 of my novel that I'm working on done. 

One goal, one goal, I set two goals for myself in the pass time. 

Erica Davis  49:33  
Peter, I am really proud of you. 

Peter Malone Elliott  49:34  
Thank you. Thank you. Erica, what about you?

Erica Davis  49:37  
My goal for next time my accountability goal for next time is to write a check in synopsis for my story. Just once in a while, if I forget where I'm going to stop back up and start a synopsis no one else ever has to see it except me. Just to check in with what I know about where my story is right now. And if I haven't written that, right So the draft yet where I want it to be going, and then review that, and I'm thinking, you know, two to three pages single spaced, is where it's going to come out of my face. So, yes to have a I'm just calling it a check in synopsis.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  50:15  
I think that's great. Yeah, I think that Yeah, I think that's a good goal to put out there for other people to have.

Erica Davis  50:21  
Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it'll end up being the perfect synopsis that I end up writing when I submit this to agents, maybe not, but for now, right now, I'm still I'm still drafting. So it's not going to be but it's, it's a I'm taking the temperature of my story. That's all 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  50:38  
okay. That's a good Yeah. Like, yeah, like that phrase.

Erica Davis  50:40  
 Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Lee. What about you? accountability goal? 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  50:45  
Can I have two? Is that okay, this you can pull a Peter! 

Erica Davis  50:49  
Oh, you know what, all right, balancing the universe. You can have two as our special guest.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  50:54  
Thank you. Thank you. Yes, you know, the first one. I'm developing runaway train as a TV series. So the pilots done, have a treatment done. And I'm attaching a director to it. But we're also working on the pitch deck. So my goal is hopefully maybe in two weeks. I'm working with a designer that the pitch deck would be awesome. Awesome, though the age the agent has some producers in mind. So then we could already start kind of sending it out. 

Peter Malone Elliott  51:25  
Nice. Awesome. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  51:26  
So that's a goal. I feel like it's doable close. And so my other goals a little weird. The book I have coming out in September stalker stocked. It's a thriller set in the world of reality TV. And I have some thriller writers who are writing blurbs. And my other goal is to reach out to reality TV stars. All right blurb as well as so I'm literally emailing housewife. Nice to try to get blurbs from them. So my goal is to hopefully get some real housewives blurbs. 

Peter Malone Elliott  52:06  
Phenomenal

Erica Davis  52:07  
Are you interested in some unsolicited advice about please an option? I have noticed that I have I've noticed that some reality. So I think that's what they are is reality stars are active on Instagram. And even Twitter. Yeah, so I just even if it's not a message I started

Lee Matthew Goldberg  52:25  
this morning on Instagram, is said to remove the real housewives. 

Erica Davis  52:32  
You know what? We never know who's gonna be listening to this episode in a week. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  52:36  
Yeah. We'll see what happens. But I'm like, all right. A regular author gives a blurb. It's nice. It helps. Yeah, one of them and then puts it on Instagram. Totally. I mean, 

Erica Davis  52:49  
Don't overlook the showrunners either. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  52:51  
Yeah, that's Oh, that's true. out to like the producers on the show-- Yeah, I think of that.

They're, they're on Twitter. A lot of their DMS are open and just keep it respectful

obviously. That's Yeah, really helpful, actually. And I why I never watched those shows before, but I watched them for research. And they were really funny and I got into the line. Yeah,

Erica Davis  53:10  
I want us we're gonna circle back to pre accountability goal. I'm not cutting this out. This is gonna stay and oh, yeah, we're if you if you aren't a fan, I assumed you were a fan of reality shows.

Unknown Speaker  53:22  
Like survivor and Okay, big brother and like those kind of shows, but I had never seen like housewives band or like those, you know, but that was the ones I needed to watch. 

Erica Davis  53:33  
Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So when, I mean, you know what Bear Grylls may be there for you. 

Peter Malone Elliott  53:39  
That's true. 

Erica Davis  53:41  
Yeah, True. True. Okay. Jeff probsts isn't doing much. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  53:45  
That's a good one to reach out to. Oh, and he's he's a young adult writer, and he's written young adult books. Why y'all think you would be perfect. Jeff Probst wrote maybe two or three young adult books. 

Erica Davis  53:56  
I'll be damned. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  53:57  
You might have done it under a pen name, but I don't think so. I don't think that'd be a smart thing to cover.

think he did it under his name. And I love I love Jeff probes so much. You've got Vipers. I've applied it's my favorite show. I love survival. 

Erica Davis  54:10  
Do you have your reel still? 

So I was 25 I'm 43 so it was a long time ago right on a kind of camera with a big cassette. Yeah, I remember. Oh, yeah. We know how old you are. I it was it was really good. So I had a stuffed animal pumpkin that I grew up with and you squeeze the pumpkins arm and it like laughs So I tried video of me and pumpkin were the final two and walk in like was the villain and sold everybody out broke alliances and like I played like the decent game. And I made it to the second like a second round. From the video. Wait in your video that you made or no no I got a call back or whatever at the time, like it was like an email. Um, and then I never heard from them again. But it was good enough to like, make it to that. Yeah, 

that's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  55:13  
Wow, do you still have the pumpkin? I totally still have the pumpkin. I love the pumpkin. 

Erica Davis  55:19  
That's my favorite part of this whole show so far. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  55:21  
I love the pumpkin. Yeah. 

Erica Davis  55:24  
I don't know if we can beat that, Peter.

Peter Malone Elliott  55:26  
I don't think I think we have to end on that and also running out of juice. 

Erica Davis  55:30  
So yeah, and you need some air from your little hole in the wall.

Peter Malone Elliott  55:33  
my little coffin of a closet. Oh, Lee, thank you so much. 

Erica Davis  55:37  
So good. to have you, great chatting with you.

Lee Matthew Goldberg  55:39  
Yeah, this this was a pleasure. And and again, yeah, I so appreciate you having me.

Erica Davis  55:44  
Absolutely. And I feel more comfortable knowing Peters in New York was such a stand up. Pumpkin loving guy. 

Yeah. 

Lee Matthew Goldberg  55:52  
Yes, Peter We have to get together now. He's back 

Erica Davis  55:55  
With the pumpkin? 

Peter Malone Elliott  55:56  
With the pumpkin.. Yeah, I'll  only show up if the pumpkin's there. Okay. Fair. Oh, God. 

Erica Davis  56:02  
Yeah, great. Episode Four is in the hole, Peter.

Peter Malone Elliott  56:06  
We did it. So up next in Episode Five. Erica and I will be doing a special episode with no guests. No rules, no mercy. Just the two of us. So get pumped. Get ready.

Erica Davis  56:20  
Get your pajamas on because it's gonna get cozy. This is where I get giggly cuz I know we're almost done. MAAAAAAA!

Peter Malone Elliott  56:30  
If you guys have any questions, rants or raves about writing or want to learn more about us or pipeline, please visit Pipeline Artists calm and follow us on Twitter at the podcast title on Instagram at this podcast needs a title. And on Facebook. This podcast needs a title. It's fitting that the man who doesn't know anything about social media read the social media copy.

Erica Davis  56:53  
I think you read my mind. I was just thinking that's really adorable that you're trying to say these things instead of better than I would because you know I get giggly at the end of episodes and during episodes before 

Peter Malone Elliott  57:02  
BYYYYYEEEE!, 

Erica Davis  57:03  
PETER. You always cut out when you do that!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai